Post by Azral on Jun 30, 2014 3:16:20 GMT
*** Hi all. Thought I would add some threads covering discussions on in-game rules, firstly so to clear things up before they get bogged down in game sessions. This why if something needs clarification or Darren needs to make a house rule on something it is done in advance of the games (I know I'm the worse for looking up rules & facts, unfortunately due to my nature if something doesn't work or sound right in my head then I can't stop thinking about it until I have solved it or it once again makes sense). My only defence is sometimes I come across something useful like I did here and luckily WotC have admitted a few times on their official sites that sometimes the written content wasn't very clearly defined in rules/feats/spell descriptions ***
For a long time when we in-game have cast Dispel Magic on a creature we have normally rolled for the dispelling effects starting with the highest magical effect until we have succeeded in dispelling one. We it seems from WotC explanation that if you use Dispel magic targeted on a creature then you roll individually for each ongoing spell effect to see if they are dispelled. Darren can you look at this and let us know your ruling please?
I have copied the info straight from the site and added here below but here is also the link if you wanted it. WotC - Dispel Magic
Here follows the copied text:
Some of the most important interactions between magical effects arise when one effect blocks or negates another effect. Unfortunately, the general rules for magical interactions don't cover these effects very well. Instead, you must look at the descriptions for the individual effects before you can resolve the interaction. This week, we'll take a look at a few sample interactions that illustrate some principles you can use when considering magic that interferes with other magic.
Understanding the dispel magic spell provides a good basis for understand how antimagic effects work in general. This section provides a summary of the dispel magic spell description along with some additional commentary. Everything noted here also applies to the greater dispel magic spell unless noted otherwise. Dispel magic defeats spells and spell-like effects. Everything here also applies to spell-like effects unless noted otherwise.
You can cast dispel magic three different ways (and that alone makes it an unusual spell): As a targeted spell, as an area spell, or as a counterspell. The previous two installments in this series dealt with counterspells, so let's take a look at dispel magic's other two functions.
As a Counterspell Effect
As when casting dispel magic as a counterspell, you must make a caster level check with a DC of 11 + the subject spell's caster level to end the subject spell. When using the dispel magic spell, your maximum bonus for the caster level check is +10. When using the greater dispel magic spell, your maximum bonus for the caster level check is +20.
As a Targeted Effect
When casting a targeted dispel magic, you aim the spell at a creature, object, or spell. You must follow all the rules for selecting a target for the spell -- that is, you must be able to see or touch the target (see page 175 in the Player's Handbook and Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions. Targeting a creature or object is pretty straightforward. Targeting a spell, however, can prove tricky. If the spell you're targeting has a visible or tangible effect, you can select the target just by looking at it or touching it, as appropriate. If the spell you target is intangible, things get a little tougher.
A detect magic spell can determine the location of the target spell's magical aura, and you reasonably can assume that locating the spell's aura with detect magic is sufficient to target the spell with dispel magic. The DM might also allow you to target a specific spell with dispel magic when you can surmise what the spell is. For example, the barbarian in your group enters a rage and then abruptly freezes in place, not attacking. You might sensibly work out that the character is the subject of a hold person or hold monster spell, and you could target that spell with dispel magic without first resorting to detect magic.
A targeted dispel magic affects only the target, not other creatures, objects, or spells nearby. If the target is an object or creature, the dispel magic has a chance to end every spell that is currently operating on that object or creature, as noted in the spell's description. A dispel magic targeted on a creature does not also affect the creature's equipment, and a dispel magic targeted on a single object in a creature's possession does not affect the creature itself or any other objects in its possession. It's worth pointing out here that a creature and its equipment usually are treated as one entity when the creature receives a spell. For example, when a creature receives a displacement spell, both it and its equipment are displaced. Exceptions to this general rule abound, and dispel magic is one of them.
When you aim a targeted dispel magic spell at a particular spell, only that spell is subject to dispelling. This can be very helpful when you wish to free an ally of one detrimental spell without dispelling any beneficial spells the character has received.
When you select an object as the dispel magic's target, you can end every spell or spell-like effect currently operating on the object. If the target object is a magic item, you can make a caster level check to suppress all the item's magical powers for 1d4 rounds, as noted in the dispel magic spell description. An item's nonmagical properties remain unaffected by dispel magic. A +1 longsword suppressed by a dispel magic spell remains a masterwork longsword.
If the target object is a magic item that also has received one or more spells, you have a chance to end each spell currently operating on the item and a chance to suppress all the item's magical abilities. The spell description doesn't make this point clear, but it's the easiest way to handle things. Dispel magic can't suppress an artifact's magical properties, but it can end spells an artifact has produced.
Aiming a targeted dispel magic at a summoned creature proves similar to aiming the spell at a magic item. The spell has a chance to banish the summoned creature, as noted in the spell description (and in the notes on the summoning subschool on page 173 in the Player's Handbook). If the summoned creature also has received one or more spells, you have a chance to end each spell, plus a chance to banish the summoned creature. If a single summoning effect has brought forth multiple creatures and you target your dispel magic spell on one of them, you can banish only the creature you have targeted.
As an Area Effect
Instead of casting a targeted dispel magic (or using the spell as a counterspell), you can cast the spell as an area spell that fills a 20-foot burst.
An area dispel can't suppress magic items, but it can remove ongoing spells from creatures or objects. For each creature within the burst that has received one or more spells, you make a caster level check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell or fail all your checks against the spells affecting that subject. Once the area dispel magic removes one spell from a subject, it has no further effects on that subject.
An area dispel magic also ends spells operating in the same area as the burst. If the burst covers the subject spell's point of origin, a successful caster level check from you negates the whole effect, even if the burst does not cover the subject effect's whole area. See page 175 in the Player's Handbook and Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions for discussions of a magical effect's point of origin. If the dispel magic's burst merely overlaps the subject spell's area without covering the spell's point of origin, a successful caster level check from you negates only the portion of the subject spell that the burst covers.
When the burst from an area dispel magic covers two or more summoned creatures, make a single caster level check. If the check succeeds, you banish each creature the burst covers. If a summoned creature also has received one or more spells, your area dispel has a chance to remove one spell (as noted previously) and a chance to banish the summoned creature.
A targeted or area dispel magic can affect only a spell that is currently operating. When a spell has an instantaneous duration, it can't be dispelled because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.
Some spells aren't subject to dispel magic, as noted in their descriptions (for example, wall of force).
A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Usually, this means that the spell ends immediately. Be alert for spells that remain for awhile after they expire (for example, the fly spell).
For a long time when we in-game have cast Dispel Magic on a creature we have normally rolled for the dispelling effects starting with the highest magical effect until we have succeeded in dispelling one. We it seems from WotC explanation that if you use Dispel magic targeted on a creature then you roll individually for each ongoing spell effect to see if they are dispelled. Darren can you look at this and let us know your ruling please?
I have copied the info straight from the site and added here below but here is also the link if you wanted it. WotC - Dispel Magic
Here follows the copied text:
Some of the most important interactions between magical effects arise when one effect blocks or negates another effect. Unfortunately, the general rules for magical interactions don't cover these effects very well. Instead, you must look at the descriptions for the individual effects before you can resolve the interaction. This week, we'll take a look at a few sample interactions that illustrate some principles you can use when considering magic that interferes with other magic.
Dispel Magic
Understanding the dispel magic spell provides a good basis for understand how antimagic effects work in general. This section provides a summary of the dispel magic spell description along with some additional commentary. Everything noted here also applies to the greater dispel magic spell unless noted otherwise. Dispel magic defeats spells and spell-like effects. Everything here also applies to spell-like effects unless noted otherwise.
You can cast dispel magic three different ways (and that alone makes it an unusual spell): As a targeted spell, as an area spell, or as a counterspell. The previous two installments in this series dealt with counterspells, so let's take a look at dispel magic's other two functions.
As a Counterspell Effect
As when casting dispel magic as a counterspell, you must make a caster level check with a DC of 11 + the subject spell's caster level to end the subject spell. When using the dispel magic spell, your maximum bonus for the caster level check is +10. When using the greater dispel magic spell, your maximum bonus for the caster level check is +20.
As a Targeted Effect
When casting a targeted dispel magic, you aim the spell at a creature, object, or spell. You must follow all the rules for selecting a target for the spell -- that is, you must be able to see or touch the target (see page 175 in the Player's Handbook and Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions. Targeting a creature or object is pretty straightforward. Targeting a spell, however, can prove tricky. If the spell you're targeting has a visible or tangible effect, you can select the target just by looking at it or touching it, as appropriate. If the spell you target is intangible, things get a little tougher.
A detect magic spell can determine the location of the target spell's magical aura, and you reasonably can assume that locating the spell's aura with detect magic is sufficient to target the spell with dispel magic. The DM might also allow you to target a specific spell with dispel magic when you can surmise what the spell is. For example, the barbarian in your group enters a rage and then abruptly freezes in place, not attacking. You might sensibly work out that the character is the subject of a hold person or hold monster spell, and you could target that spell with dispel magic without first resorting to detect magic.
A targeted dispel magic affects only the target, not other creatures, objects, or spells nearby. If the target is an object or creature, the dispel magic has a chance to end every spell that is currently operating on that object or creature, as noted in the spell's description. A dispel magic targeted on a creature does not also affect the creature's equipment, and a dispel magic targeted on a single object in a creature's possession does not affect the creature itself or any other objects in its possession. It's worth pointing out here that a creature and its equipment usually are treated as one entity when the creature receives a spell. For example, when a creature receives a displacement spell, both it and its equipment are displaced. Exceptions to this general rule abound, and dispel magic is one of them.
When you aim a targeted dispel magic spell at a particular spell, only that spell is subject to dispelling. This can be very helpful when you wish to free an ally of one detrimental spell without dispelling any beneficial spells the character has received.
When you select an object as the dispel magic's target, you can end every spell or spell-like effect currently operating on the object. If the target object is a magic item, you can make a caster level check to suppress all the item's magical powers for 1d4 rounds, as noted in the dispel magic spell description. An item's nonmagical properties remain unaffected by dispel magic. A +1 longsword suppressed by a dispel magic spell remains a masterwork longsword.
If the target object is a magic item that also has received one or more spells, you have a chance to end each spell currently operating on the item and a chance to suppress all the item's magical abilities. The spell description doesn't make this point clear, but it's the easiest way to handle things. Dispel magic can't suppress an artifact's magical properties, but it can end spells an artifact has produced.
Aiming a targeted dispel magic at a summoned creature proves similar to aiming the spell at a magic item. The spell has a chance to banish the summoned creature, as noted in the spell description (and in the notes on the summoning subschool on page 173 in the Player's Handbook). If the summoned creature also has received one or more spells, you have a chance to end each spell, plus a chance to banish the summoned creature. If a single summoning effect has brought forth multiple creatures and you target your dispel magic spell on one of them, you can banish only the creature you have targeted.
As an Area Effect
Instead of casting a targeted dispel magic (or using the spell as a counterspell), you can cast the spell as an area spell that fills a 20-foot burst.
An area dispel can't suppress magic items, but it can remove ongoing spells from creatures or objects. For each creature within the burst that has received one or more spells, you make a caster level check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell or fail all your checks against the spells affecting that subject. Once the area dispel magic removes one spell from a subject, it has no further effects on that subject.
An area dispel magic also ends spells operating in the same area as the burst. If the burst covers the subject spell's point of origin, a successful caster level check from you negates the whole effect, even if the burst does not cover the subject effect's whole area. See page 175 in the Player's Handbook and Rules of the Game: Reading Spell Descriptions for discussions of a magical effect's point of origin. If the dispel magic's burst merely overlaps the subject spell's area without covering the spell's point of origin, a successful caster level check from you negates only the portion of the subject spell that the burst covers.
When the burst from an area dispel magic covers two or more summoned creatures, make a single caster level check. If the check succeeds, you banish each creature the burst covers. If a summoned creature also has received one or more spells, your area dispel has a chance to remove one spell (as noted previously) and a chance to banish the summoned creature.
A targeted or area dispel magic can affect only a spell that is currently operating. When a spell has an instantaneous duration, it can't be dispelled because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.
Some spells aren't subject to dispel magic, as noted in their descriptions (for example, wall of force).
A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Usually, this means that the spell ends immediately. Be alert for spells that remain for awhile after they expire (for example, the fly spell).
