Proposed House Rule Change

Like I've always said. I've never agreed with the -2 attribute loss for being brought back from the dead. I think its far to harsh. The standard rule for coming bk i always thought was fine. That's why i decided a long time ago that i would bring character back from dead once! I still don't like only being able to raise those within 2 alignments of your deity and also in good standing. The way i see it my deity grants me the power to rasie dead. If he didn't want it to work on someone then it wouldn't, but how could anyone but dwarfs and a select few be in gud standing with most dwarven deities.

I will address both points from a DM's point of view.

Firstly, the -2 Hit.
I always thought the penalty for dying wasn't harsh enough. As written, you lose some xp and some diamonds, that's really it, no other cost for DYING.
My reasoning therefore was that characters and players do not fear death enough. There has to be a cost that makes you not want to die. As written, you die, you come back, have a little sleep, then pick up where you left off all for a few thousand gp worth of diamond dust.
Once you factor in a cleric who can raise you on the job so to speak without even needing a visit to a temple (once he reaches quite a low level too to be honest), death just doesn't matter anymore and is just another hiccup like a curse or ability damage - a minor hindrance at best.

In the example Luke gave; if you chose to dump 2 points in wisdom and therefore lose your ability to cast spells, then that's the cost of dying and it's YOU who has made that happen. The solution to this is: Don't pick Wisdom as your loss stat!!!! You have six to pick from, some of them are bloody high too! At least you can chose what stat to reduce.
Second solution: Find ways of raising the ability back - magic items, tomes, spells, every four levels etc.
Once a character has died a few times, you do indeed get terribly drained - but that's the point; You can't just march on infinitely. At some point, you have to retire, your body and your soul just can't take it anymore.

Secondly, the reason the Gods will only raise the people that they like? I would ask this:
Why would Bane allow his cleric to raise a servant of Lathander? and visa versa?
Why would the lawful and ordered Tyr allow a evil and random force for chaos back amongst the living?
Why would a Dwarven diety agree to return life to someone who had raided Dwarven temples or aided the Mind Flayers in raids against the dwarves?

"The way i see it my deity grants me the power to rasie dead"
This is an incorrect way of looking at this and any of your spells - you are a servant of your god. He is the one who raises the dead THROUGH you not BECAUSE of you. You ask (nay, beg and pray), you don't demand, and he gives. You do not have the power to raise the dead at all.
According to old 2nd edition fluff - 1st to 2nd level spells were by the skills of the cleric, 3rd-5th level spells were powers granted by Avatars and Angels and the 6th - 7th level spells (cleric spells only went up to 7th level back then) were direct intervention by the god.

"but how could anyone but dwarfs and a select few be in gud standing with most dwarven deities."
Good standing doesn't mean that they have done favours for the dwarven gods, just that they haven't done anything bad against them and therefore are in "good standing" for not being an enemy. besides, many dwarfs are not in good standing with dwarven dieties!
The cleric has no hope of knowing for sure without divinations etc. The dwarven cleric could know that someone seems friendly with the dwarves and even aided them on occasion, but could NEVER know their true past and standing with the temple. However, the rule is that the temple or cleric performing the raising must take every effort to ensure that the dead person is not an enemy of their church and, as you rightfully pointed out, the spell would likely fail anyway.

"If he didn't want it to work on someone then it wouldn't"
And it won't!

It would be fair to say that a character who does not match the alignments of the god's clerics but has performed great duties and favors for the temple and god, could be raised. These rules are there as a guide to who the gods are willing to help and again; to make death a more terrifying prospect.

Right, so I've tried to explain my reasons for the house rules and to justify them, Sticking with the rules as written isn't an option, death is just too damn easy to cheat.
Death has to have a cost and a consequence, now over to you - what would you suggest? and if we all agree, we will adopt them as the house rule.
(Originally, the penalty was only -1. If the group feel that strongly about it, I will remove it or perhaps take it back to -1 penalty.)

While we're on the subject of house rules, are there any others you want to discuss or propose?

A few alternatives:
Luke suggests Losing a Level (well, some xps). The only problem with this is someone could fall way behind and in my mind isn't harsh enough.
Lose 1hp permanent.
Lose 1 point from a chosen stat.

I only have book race, no template.. Good starting stats but thats only cause I rolled them.. Does that mean I get a freebie raise lmao 

I did say that my deity only allows the spells to work if he chooses too. When I said he grants me the power to use them I ment that my Deity allows me to use the powers granted to me during prayer.

I can understand most of the Deity Alignment Rasing thing. Like you said though that you don't see Bane being happy to raise a follower of Lathander, But thats what I'm saying! Currently My Deity will allow me to raise a Neutral Evil person but not one of my team mates that is Lawful Good!? That I don't get..

Yeh guess so. And here was me thinking i was the only one meddling (dam LG characters).

In regards to that hit on Rasing i prefer the -1 stat and some exp loss. I think that better represents dying and coming back myself.

About starting stats I think 28-32 is a gud area but then i normally go for rolls anyway lol.

Hi Guys

I agree and disagree, if your wondering what I mean well I'll explain. Personally I hate losing a character as I think you all know. I would rather have a small negative effect from having a character die and be able to use that character than have to start from scratch with a new character. I like the idea of the -1 to the stat and a loss of Exp -2 is very deliberating and crippling. The option put forward regarding resurrection I like the idea of choosing which option would be available. I know Kal is currently dead however I don't want her lost especially as I have invested time into her and now have a definitive direction for her.

If you're wondering where I agree, well yes there should be some sort of cost to being raised and exp alone is not much of a deduction as this can be got back by being just a bit more careful (there are the odd occasions where you're going to come a cropper and not entirely being your own fault, bad luck on your dice rolls or a random result as examples which i've been hit by both).

I think Darrens last post works with the -1/xp and with true res 1 or the other. As for the points I appreciate with the templates you can get a hefty boost, but you do end up paying for it with the level adjustment. As Kendall pointed out to me the fact Darren allows us to buy them off means that you can end up with less of a penalty for having the template and the bonuses, which is cool and im glad he allows it. But in response even with this you still put yourself back a level to do it every time so I think the trade off's work.

I still think the 25 point is a little harsh, the maximum starting buy for a character is 96 points (I admit next to impossible to do however/more likely to become wolverine than achieve it lol) and as Darren was saying you can place to get some good and some average etc as you should choose where your character is the strongest. You cant be top dollar in everyarea, as much as that would be cool lol - Bring on the one men armies

Sorry if my earlier post was confusing, bit knackered when posted.

What I mean't is that I feel that an Exp deduction is not severe enough but -2 is to high a loss.
I would agree that under normal circumstances a loss of 1 point of stat and an exp loss would be favorable with a true resurrection giving the choice.